40 Years of Failure = A Life of Success // Jose Berlanga's Story
In this episode of Exploring Growth, host Lee Murray talks with José Berlang, Real Estate Developer, Author, and Investor. He shares his entrepreneurial journey from humble beginnings in Mexico to success in multifamily and commercial real estate. The conversation highlights the power of persistence, adaptability, and learning from failure.
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José – https://www.linkedin.com/in/jose-berlanga-900a9518/
Jose Berlanga
00:00:00
Falling off the horse hurts time after time. Just because you fallen off a horse ten times doesn't mean that the 11th is not going to hurt. That's right. You just know how to prevent it better and and how to deal with it. But it still hurts. Yeah. So so that's something that perhaps a lot of people think that it just gets easier, but it doesn't. You just get better at preventing and forecasting.
Lee Murray
00:00:29
As some of you might be aware, I'm starting a new series on the podcast where I bring on founders and I get them to tell their stories. There's so many fascinating stories of founders starting and exiting companies, and I want to try to capture as many of those as I can here on the podcast. So today is one of my first for 2025, and we're going to get to hear from Jose Berlanga, real estate developer, author and investor. And he's got a very interesting background and journey as an entrepreneur. I think that will be very relatable to a lot of you who are listening.
Lee Murray
00:01:04
So. Jose, welcome to the show.
Jose Berlanga
00:01:06
Hello, Lee. Thank you for having me. It's great to be here.
Lee Murray
00:01:10
Yeah. So in our pre call we were discussing you know okay well how do we frame this out. How do we kind of give the listeners a roadmap for, for your life and successes as an entrepreneur. And what came from it was 40 years of nightmares equals a life of success.
Jose Berlangas
00:01:33
Pretty much. That's right.
Lee Murray
00:01:35
Yeah. So so I'm really excited to hear your story. and, kind of, start from the beginning and we'll, we'll kind of walk through some, you know, it seems like through our initial discussions, you have a lot of wisdom to, to impart through failures more than successes. And I know that everybody listening can relate to failures.
Jose Berlanga
00:01:59
Yes, absolutely. Every entrepreneur has to go through a little bit of pain, unfortunately.
Lee Murray
00:02:05
So let's start. Let's start at the very beginning. I think it's worth noting you weren't born in the US. take us through that part of your your your life.
Jose Berlanga
00:02:14
Yes, yes. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. I was born in Mexico. And and by the way, I let me mention that I would hope I would sincerely hope that it doesn't take everybody 40 years to become successful and and to achieve their goals. I've had a temporary success throughout all those decades where all of a sudden I was on top. I don't want to suggest that it took me 40 years to get somewhere. It just, I think finally, after a few decades, I found some level of stability. But throughout those, those decades, I found a great moments of success, periods of success where my businesses were thriving and growing and doing very well, until they weren't. And that happens to all of us. I know it probably happened to me more often than to most people, and and I'm probably, Unusually persistent and resilient to just keep going and starting all over again from scratch. I don't know if it's my nature. I don't know if it's my stubbornness. I don't know if that was just my destiny or or the circumstances, but but yeah, I grew up in Mexico in a very difficult environment.
Jose Berlanga
00:03:25
I've. I've experienced ups and downs. A little bit of, I wouldn't call it poverty, but, you know, humble beginnings that that teach you how to be frugal, how to manage, the little that you have. My, my background growing up in Mexico was was difficult after a, a very tough accident that I experienced were, where I, where I was burned. third degree burns throughout my body. And, and that taught me probably just the the meaning of, tolerance and resilience and, in, in fighting, adversity and and just dealing with, with a difficult journey. That perhaps was the beginning of, the learning lessons that came very handy, very helpful during my business career. Yeah. So if we fast forward, at some point, I had the opportunity to come to the, to the US to, to study, to go to college, and, and I couldn't wait. school was what I perceived to be an obstacle for me is not what I wanted, is not what I thought I needed.
Jose Berlanga
00:04:39
But it's something that I just wanted to get out of the way. My family wanted me to have a degree as a first generation of, of of, a family member that could have the opportunity to, to have a degree. So I couldn't ways that opportunity. But it was in my priority the moment I started going to college, I immediately started a business because that's really what I wanted. I wanted to make money, I wanted to become successful. And and I began to look for those opportunities. And and one came very quickly. Thanks. Thanks to my dad, who was, who who was in the oil and gas business. he had been retired already, and and he was, in, in the industry of valves and piping and machinery for the oil and gas. So me landing in Houston, Texas, being an energy, the energy capital of the world, it was ideal where he hooked me up. He put me in touch with some of his contacts and and we began this journey.
Jose Berlanga
00:05:40
He was afraid. One of the wonderful things, about businesses, sometimes you can find someone that can complement, supplement some of those weaknesses. My father had a technical background and had been in business in this sector in Mexico, but he didn't speak English and he was not able to continue his business in Mexico. Things had changed, and me being here and speaking English gave us the confidence to utilize each other's talents to start this business where we became international brokers, a purchasing agency for petrochemical plants in Mexico, where we were doing their acquisitions for maintenance for parts. So, so long story short, let's skip that. But the business began to grow very quickly and do very well. We began, a very successful journey. But of course, the speed bumps came about as the economy changed currency fluctuations in Mexico. our clients, began to slow down with, with their ability to pay the bills. And and this is where the the initial experience of, growing pains. Interestingly enough, this change of, of, an economic circumstance came about as we were growing and we were hiring people and we were getting a little bit in debt.
Jose Berlanga
00:07:13
Which brings us to the main subject, our timing. Had it been when it when the business was in its early stages, maybe we wouldn't have had so much overhead or we wouldn't have been so vulnerable. had it been later, maybe we would have had enough time to build enough reserves and enough. But but we although it was a multi-million dollar business, a lot of it was in infrastructure and equipment and and receivables and so on and so forth. Sometimes you're rich on paper and, and that puts you in a very vulnerable position. So that that was the case in that first business. Maybe one of the lessons I learned that, we we, misinterpret because we never want to quit in business. We never want to stop, and I never have. But perhaps in this particular experience, I should have walked away when we were still in very good, in a very good financial position and cashed out.
Lee Murray
00:08:16
But we but could you have known, I mean, looking back, could you have known that that was the right move?
Jose Berlanga
00:08:22
it was very similar as, something, let's say, as the pandemic or as a financial crisis where you think, no, somebody's going to come in and something is going to change quickly.
Jose Berlanga
00:08:34
Let's keep going. Let's invest more money. Let's keep growing. Let's find more customers. Let's travel more. Let's hire more salespeople, and let's do more in order to perhaps save ourselves from this situation. Instead of saying, no, this is going to get real bad. So no.
Lee Murray
00:08:49
Yeah. And I would say.
Jose Berlangas
00:08:51
To.
Jose Berlanga
00:08:51
Forecasted it, but no.
Lee Murray
00:08:53
Young and full of energy and passion. This is your first adventure? Yeah. I mean, it would seem like you were doing something so wrong by not charging for it and not trying to make more of the situation. So I don't see how you could have seen that. That would be the right move at such an early age and early, you know, for adventure.
Jose Berlanga
00:09:16
Absolutely. I don't think that particularly at that age where where you feel invincible and you think that you come any situation. So that that wasn't the case here. And little by little we drained our savings and our in our company went down and and I was out of business completely having to start again.
Jose Berlanga
00:09:36
Thankfully, I was still very young, but. But darn it hurt. It hurt. It was painful. It was difficult. Thankfully, I had built a lot of relationships in business. I had contacts, I had, friends. I had credibility. I had a good reputation. I had made some investments. One of the questions I get asked often is how did I get back on my feet? and I had made, besides contacts, a couple of investments in restaurants and things like that. And I ended up with, some level of ownership in, in a couple of other businesses where basically I started. I mean, I depleted my savings and my capital, but I started from scratch and started little by little, building up, another business. Yeah. And and, a lot of things happened. A few years went by, of of pain and suffering and rebuilding things and most, most of all mentally, psychologically rebuilding your ability to, to, to to become positive again in thinking that things are going to do well.
Lee Murray
00:10:46
So how old were you at this time when the business failed?
Jose Berlanga
00:10:50
I was my first failure. My first multi-million dollar fall happened in my early 20s because I started my first business, when I was barely 17 or 18, so that was wonderful. It was wonderful. In retrospect, it was horrible at the time, in retrospect, that I was young enough to be able to recover quite well. Yeah. but there were more and more failures, you know, more and more attempts. The second one, as I built a some investments, in the including a chain of of coffee houses and in that that became very valuable, car coffee bars and ice cream bars. We build a brand in, in a small franchise that was in the process of growing that that was very valuable at the time. Here we go again with those famous growing pains a second time. It catches me. Sorry. As we're building, opening stores, borrowing money, leveraging our company to open new locations. Starbucks starts coming in like crazy into our market, opening places at every corner and in and with our debt and with our overhead and with our growth.
Jose Berlanga
00:12:12
At that particular moment in time, we couldn't afford to lose sales and in effect, our percentages and having to change our model. It hit us. The timing was awful for us to have experienced that level of overnight competition. We were one of the first coffee houses. As now there are endless of them. But we were one of the ones that had to educate the consumer and and have to come in and spend. You know, back then, 2 or $3 for a cup of coffee that people didn't quite understand, or 2 or $3 for an ice cream, where I'm talking about back in the 90s where, you know, a dollar for coffee was already expensive, right? If you were in the type of, person that would just make your coffee at home. Yeah. So but we open, that market, and we educated the consumer and we grew. But, here we go again, experiencing some tough, tough, aggressive competition at the wrong time where we needed every dollar to support our debt.
Jose Berlanga
00:13:15
all the money we had borrowed to open stores and to grow and, back then, you know, we we weren't familiar with the institutional investors where we could get on limited funds to just grow this thing. We were doing it from within very organically. And another, example and, skipping all the details, we went out of business. We started selling some stores, liquidating some, shutting some down because we just weren't able to make the, the, the, the, the, the payments. And little by little we had to get out of trouble. It took me a few years. Again, to recover from this one. I invested several years just paying debt. Just working. To pay these debts. Because one thing that, in this country is important. Unlike other countries. You can lose all your money. You can lose your capital. You can lose your business. But just don't file for bankruptcy. Yeah. Figure out how to stay away from that, because that stays on your record for life.
Jose Berlanga
00:14:17
And once you get to that point now, it becomes very, very difficult to ever get back on your feet again. And I, with all of my heart, I, I try to avoid, filing for bankruptcy, so I just pay. It worked for years to pay back some of this debt. Wow. And, anyway, I got into other businesses, and. Yeah. So on and so forth.
Lee Murray
00:14:41
Well, good for you for doing that, by the way. I mean that integrity. I think that will. I'm sure has played out and served you well. Later on in life, you know, the the network you built, the partners you worked with. if everyone is rowing in the right direction and they see what's really happening, then they're going to. That's going to play out for you in the long term. If I look back at these two stories now, what I'm saying is an external threat in the market on this first one, that kind of came out of nowhere.
Lee Murray
00:15:09
You're too young and really too passionate to see that you should get out of it, which I don't think anybody would have made that wiser decision. And then the second one here is competition. That's that's almost a different kind of threat than a market threat. so you're getting you're getting schooled in, entrepreneurship in a whole new way.
Jose Berlangas
00:15:31
Absolutely.
Lee Murray
00:15:32
But I will say, though, in both of these instances so far, what I've seen is you going full force at the, the the concept, the idea, the, the the business itself, Of not being timid. And I think, as we'll probably see play out here pretty soon. That is going to serve you well at some point in a success. Because, I mean, if if I were meeting with you, then knowing what I know now, you know, I would say, hey, you got to you got to get back on the horse because you've got everything it takes. But you've had these, these derailments.
Jose Berlanga
00:16:11
And that's something that, that a lot of entrepreneurs don't understand.
Jose Berlanga
00:16:14
When you experience failure like this, it's it's a purpose. Yeah. if, if you throw the towel and quit and just go and find a job, you're losing all of that experience. You're losing all of those, things that you experience that might help you improve your chances on the next try, on the next attempt. You're gaining so much experience, it doesn't feel like it. No, I understand it's really difficult that at the time. Yeah. And, in in, in. It's almost like, Yeah. You know, going through a divorce or something like, like that where you just don't want to go through that level of pain or. Yeah, or that that, that experience again. But, but in business, if you have that personality, you just eventually want to try it again and keep going and and tweaking your plan and perfecting your plan and learning from those lessons in that second experience. It was a combination of of competition combined with leverage, combined with a lot of things that were going on at the same time.
Jose Berlanga
00:17:22
It was just a perfect storm to put us out of business.
Jose Berlangas
00:17:25
Yeah.
Jose Berlanga
00:17:25
And, and and we learn it again. And and by the way, in between those businesses, and I'm about to tell you the third attempt. Yeah, I had many other ones, other startups where I invested some money, where I was more like a silent investor. You know, a partner that almost for one reason or another, I, I mean, I was learning like crazy. Yeah. For example, how to not put your hands, your, your business in the wrong hands or how to not operate a business without enough information. Yeah. and there are. So I begin to understand the number of things that have to go right in order for a business to succeed. Yeah. Not 1 or 2 things, but it's a dish.
Jose Berlangas
00:18:10
It's a.
Jose Berlanga
00:18:11
Salad of ingredients that must come together in harmony in order for a business to thrive.
Jose Berlangas
00:18:20
In such a.
Lee Murray
00:18:20
Great analogy. I love that, looking back at that second failure, those three years of you building back up and paying that money back.
Lee Murray
00:18:30
I think for for at least one person listening right now, they're in that situation and they're probably thinking, you know, what is what, is this all worth it? Should I just quit? Should I just go do something else? Just get a job. Talk a little bit more about your mindset, and, and where you were at that time and how did you come out of that to know you move on to other things?
Jose Berlanga
00:18:55
I think this is this is different for everyone. And, my I have to admit that my circumstances up until this point were very positive because at this stage, I'm still not married. I still have no children. I don't have that much of a financial responsibility. I'm just broke again. Yeah. And and that is a level of freedom.
Jose Berlangas
00:19:21
Yes.
Jose Berlanga
00:19:21
Although very scary. Very painful. in excruciating to lose millions of dollars and be worth nothing again and not know where you're going to, come up with a with a rent and things like that, and losing your home and losing all of these things.
Jose Berlanga
00:19:40
But at least, You can go to sleep knowing that, you don't have a family to feed. That allowed me to continue to investigate business. That was one of the positives that I had that I could afford to continue living on under a very limited budget, very frugally. And and with, with nothing. And give it a shot. And while all of this is happening, the mindset, although it was difficult, it's humbling. one of the recommendations that I give to, to entrepreneurs that, that go through something like that is learn your new reality and understand that now you have to start again. It doesn't matter where you're no longer on top, you're no longer the boss. You're no longer the leader. Start wherever a new opportunity comes. And. And I did that. I was never, arrogant or I never believed that I was more than I was. I knew that I was learning and that I needed to try again. And I was creating more relationships in, in, in credibility.
Jose Berlanga
00:20:51
And I was, perhaps exposing myself to a lot of people that were watching what I was doing and how I operated. And I have to admit that although I was looking at learning the the subject of entrepreneurship, because that's something I want to touch on, I never became an expert, on anything other than putting deals together so I could switch from one industry. I became very versatile, where I could move from one industry to another because I understood finance, I understood banking, I understood numbers of people managing, hiring, training, all of the fundamentals of putting a business together. And, and, and the people around me understood that, that if they had a business that was struggling, they call me and I did that. I helped others put their businesses together, sometimes even for free. And that got me, took me a long way with, with, a lot of relationships in the business world. The next experience, interestingly enough, came when my younger brother graduated and became an architect, and with very little money between his knowhow and mine in the business world, we started a construction company.
Jose Berlanga
00:22:10
We started a residential construction company. Now we're more, fast forwarding to the late 90s. now I'm, a little more seasoned, a little more savvy in the business world trying to get back on my feet. But I have much more experience in the business world. I have much more to bring to the table as to how to start and build a business. And we build it again from a very small investment, A very small bungalow. A tiny inner city home that we build. And it's a long story. I wrote a book about how it all happened. The Business of Home Building, which is the story as to how this business started and grew and developed. but but a tiny, Amount of money, we turn it into 100 plus million dollar a year company. until here we go again, 2008. And actually started a little early 2007. The financial crisis, the housing bubble.
Jose Berlangas
00:23:16
We all remember.
Jose Berlanga
00:23:16
They. Yes. They again caught us way over leveraged. you know, to the tune of, you know, 70, $80 million in debt in, a couple of hundred homes, in lots in production in a few hundred thousand dollars a month in overhead.
Jose Berlanga
00:23:36
And we had a very, very, sophisticated infrastructure when our business went to zero overnight.
Jose Berlangas
00:23:45
Wow.
Jose Berlanga
00:23:46
A new experience. Now, this is not an evaluation. This is not competition. Yeah. It's not, currency exchanges. This was just a mortgage situation. That and I can continue with other experiences. We had other ones. But somehow all of those lessons. Yeah. For the previous, let's call it 20 years of business experiences, help me navigate through the 2008 financial crisis where we lost millions, most of our fortune, which was lost, but we were able to manage and surf through all of this, horrible situation because we had the experience of how to how to navigate through these turbulent times. And, in, in, in we were very, responsible when two years were, were were strong. Saved a lot of money but had a lot of equity in all of our projects. Yeah. And that allowed us so we we although we were overleveraged, we also had a tremendous amount of equity in, in, in many, many developments that help us get through all of this.
Jose Berlanga
00:24:59
And again, we didn't have to go through bankruptcy, which were we were one of the few companies in our industry that didn't other than the public companies that have unlimited resources in, in, in institutional funds to go to. And we didn't, but we were literally one of the 2 or 3 companies that remained in business, and we were the largest one the remaining business, we were enlarged by that time. It was all said and done. We had to start all over. Yeah, but we grew it again. And as they say, if you're able to survive a crisis like that, it'll make you stronger. And it made our business stronger. We grew very fast and we recover very quickly when all of this was behind us.
Lee Murray
00:25:43
And it probably galvanised your mindset then, especially you after those three. But you and your partners to say, if we can make it through this, then we really need to just, you know, get on a rocket and go.
Jose Berlanga
00:25:58
At that moment you have no choice because you know that in neglecting or in ignoring the problems in the debt and the banks and the customers and the warranties and the employees and the payrolls and the contract, all the contracts you have with different contractors, ignoring them.
Jose Berlanga
00:26:14
It's a world of legal issues that we just didn't want. So we just work to pay, bring money to closings. When we were selling houses, we were actually instead of the buyer bringing, we were bringing money because we were selling things upside down. And it was a very, very tough time for us. where where I didn't want to get out of bed for, for, for, for years where it was just a, an excruciating time. But we we made it through and we didn't have a choice, by the way. I mean, it was this is where you have to find the energy, the the stamina, the the resilience to just deal with one problem at a time and just start focusing on one day at a time how to make it through. Today. You start forgetting in periods like those, you stop thinking about the future and about growth, and about systems and about procedures. You rebuild your strategy. You reconstruct your mindset from a long term and growing mode in, in, in, in, operating your, your company to survival mode.
Jose Berlanga
00:27:25
What do I do today? What do I need to just get through today? Yeah. And if you have the ability to do that and manage that mentally Italy. One day at a time. Just like a marathon. One step at a time.
Jose Berlangas
00:27:40
Yep.
Jose Berlanga
00:27:41
By the one day, you look back and you go, okay, I've covered some territory here. I'm going. I'm getting somewhere. But to answer your question, I have to admit that. And again, everybody, everybody is different. But I'm going to be humble enough, honest enough to tell you that it makes you stronger in the experience scenario, in the ability to handle and to know how to act and react, but not always emotionally. I mean, it still hurts and you still experience the fears, the concerns, the sleepless nights. I after four years of dealing with this, I'm not going to tell you that I am no longer worried about these issues and circumstances, or that I tell myself, oh, I've been through that.
Jose Berlanga
00:28:35
I can't handle anything. No, on the contrary, I'm every day I'm planning how not to have to go through those things because I know they will be painful again. Yeah. And it's particularly later on in life and in my age. And I don't want to go through all that again. I become a little more careful. It's not that I become stronger or more powerful or or convince myself that I can get through anything. I can probably do that, but I don't want to. And that is part of the experience. Your, the your wisdom to prevent some of these.
Jose Berlangas
00:29:17
Things.
Jose Berlanga
00:29:17
Better each time. Yes, it's probably what matters and what counts and what changes because, you know, falling off, the horse hurts time after time. Just because you've fallen off a horse ten times. Doesn't mean that the 11th is not going to hurt.
Jose Berlangas
00:29:36
That's right.
Jose Berlanga
00:29:37
You just know how to prevent it.
Jose Berlangas
00:29:38
Better.
Jose Berlanga
00:29:39
And and in how to deal with it. But it still hurts.
Jose Berlangas
00:29:43
Yeah.
Jose Berlanga
00:29:43
So so that's something that perhaps a lot of people think that it just gets easier, but it doesn't.
Jose Berlanga
00:29:49
You just get better at preventing and forecasting. So.
Lee Murray
00:29:53
So you made it through the financial crisis and it, it it made you stronger. now where did you where did your journey take you from there?
Jose Berlanga
00:30:01
Well, it took me to, it first of all, that that crisis forced us to keep going. To keep going to to, revive the business, to rebuild it. And next time around, I think we could have grown a lot more because we were one of the few players left in our industry in, in our region. and but we we were we were much more cautious. We continued in and as a result, we began to diversify our business. We began to make other investments in real estate. started going into more multifamily and in, commercial, some income, producing properties, land development, working, deals with other developers and so on and so forth. And started that business again. rebuilt it in. And now we feel that at this point, we have so much experience in handling some of these that, we've become, our company itself has become very resilient to these ups and downs.
Jose Berlanga
00:31:12
I'm, I'm going to, go out on a limb and say that I'm, I'm almost hoping for those, those down cycles, because that is also, once you have built enough resources and reserves where you can make a lot of money out of those.
Jose Berlangas
00:31:30
That's right.
Jose Berlanga
00:31:30
But you have to. Oh, yeah, you have to already have had some success in some, some capital to take advantage of those.
Jose Berlangas
00:31:39
And that's a.
Lee Murray
00:31:40
Lot of capital. I mean, you got to have a lot of resources to jump on those those good deals.
Jose Berlanga
00:31:45
Yeah, yeah. Now we are prepared, you know, and in good cycles we make some money and bad cycles we take advantage of those opportunities.
Jose Berlangas
00:31:53
Yeah.
Jose Berlanga
00:31:53
Which we've had some, recently, you know, with interest rates. And it's gotten difficult in one area of our company. But now we have other areas that can benefit from. Yeah, from those horrible, moments and cycles that, that, that bring opportunities.
Lee Murray
00:32:10
So you're now at a point where you, you're fully into real estate development, investing.
Lee Murray
00:32:16
Is this kind of your domain now or do you play in other domains?
Jose Berlanga
00:32:21
no, I, I love to invest in other things. I invested in a couple of technology companies and a couple of startup companies, and, mostly the bulk is is real estate. That is where my my expertise. That is what I understand. I love to manage my own. I'm a control freak as most entrepreneurs, and I like to manage my money and my my own investments. I like to control them. yes. I may put a little bit of money here and there and other businesses, but the bulk of it is under my control. Yeah. in. And I love doing that, but but now I'm shifting gears a little bit into, writing, slowing down finally. And I'm beginning to have the opportunity to slow down a little bit for the first time in my life. without having to compromise my my quality of life and, and, and and begin to do things like writing books, I enjoy it, I enjoy the storytelling and pouring my thoughts on and organizing them and telling you a little bit about this, the my career.
Lee Murray
00:33:25
That's awesome. what's the have you do you have a book out?
Jose Berlanga
00:33:28
Yes, yes. The first one was is out the business of home building.
Jose Berlangas
00:33:33
Okay.
Jose Berlanga
00:33:33
Which is, not about building homes, but it's about how to build a business through.
Jose Berlangas
00:33:37
Yeah. Okay.
Jose Berlanga
00:33:38
I tell the story through how I build a construction company, which. But it's more about, how to start and build a company. doesn't matter what the product is. I am about to publish a second book, which is more about real estate, land development, land investing and speculating. and, that's about to be published. And, and I'm in the middle of another one, which is about, the the mindset of an entrepreneur, the mentality, the psychology.
Jose Berlangas
00:34:07
Yeah.
Jose Berlanga
00:34:08
Personality. Some of the traits that, all of us entrepreneurs share. Yeah. and, and I'm enjoying that process. I, I'm struggling a little bit because I still have a daytime job. and that's always a challenge, you know, to focus on, on, on, doing some of your fun projects while you still have some obligations and responsibilities.
Lee Murray
00:34:34
So yeah, I can imagine. Well, this has been an amazing conversation. Thank you for sharing your story with us. And, I know that there's a lot of value that's been translated here. So, it's been an honor having you here. we'll put the links to your current book out. and if we want to send people your way to get in touch with you, where should we send them?
Jose Berlanga
00:34:56
Jose Berlanga. Com. in in all the the the normal links, you know, Facebook, Instagram and YouTube. but, I plan to have more and more, more stuff, more content pretty soon. I've, I've neglected all those accounts as I haven't been much, very much involved in social media, but but I plan to pretty soon.
Lee Murray
00:35:21
There you go. Okay. That's great. Well thanks again. This has been great.
Jose Berlanga
00:35:25
Thank you. Lee. I've really enjoyed being here with you.